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About Our vBulletin Services


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#1
Olivier Turbis

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Dear vBulletin customers,

You have surely noticed our lack of vBulletin skins updates. That is due to the fact that we have decided to wait until vBulletin 4.1 is released to rebuild our skins from scratch. We will of course support all future versions of vBulletin after 4.1 is released (that would be, 4.1.1, 4.1.2, etc.), but we felt that we would be better waiting for vBulletin 4.1 and start fresh than making point updates every weeks or so. We are of course still providing support in the community forums for those who have purchased vBulletin products.

Please note that our complete rebuilt will be free for every customers.

Thank you!
Olivier Turbis,
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#2
bt4ajt

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View PostOlivier Turbis, on 12 September 2010 - 03:30 PM, said:

Dear vBulletin customers,

You have surely noticed our lack of vBulletin skins updates. That is due to the fact that we have decided to wait until vBulletin 4.1 is released to rebuild our skins from scratch. We will of course support all future versions of vBulletin after 4.1 is released (that would be, 4.1.1, 4.1.2, etc.), but we felt that we would be better waiting for vBulletin 4.1 and start fresh than making point updates every weeks or so. We are of course still providing support in the community forums for those who have purchased vBulletin products.

Please note that our complete rebuilt will be free for every customers.

Thank you!

Thanks for the update, I was wondering what was going on but that makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks again

#3
AlexJ

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vB has bugs and they update there software to fix bugs, but if there is no skin update from you, then web admins are kind of stuck on same version.

I just hope this doesn't happen to IPB because then many would be asking for refunds.

#4
Sebastien Penet

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The problem is that we need more staff to handle so many little updates. vB should just slow down, there's no need for such frequent updates. If they just grouped the updates, it would be better and more professional. By the way, we could wonder why there are so much fixes. Maybe vB 4 came out too early... I think that's the root of the problem actually.
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#5
AlexJ

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View PostSebastien Penet, on 19 September 2010 - 10:42 AM, said:

The problem is that we need more staff to handle so many little updates. vB should just slow down, there's no need for such frequent updates. If they just grouped the updates, it would be better and more professional. By the way, we could wonder why there are so much fixes. Maybe vB 4 came out too early... I think that's the root of the problem actually.

Why not? If they don't fix issues, web admins are not happy there and if the fix issues you guys are not happy. :) I would rather take frequent update to fix the issues actively rather then keep using buggy one. They also provide which files are changed/affected in every change, no?

I think root cause is, skinbox doesn't have enough staff to provide the service which they said, they will. I am also getting no support for IPB skins. On the top, my testimonial about your services, got moved to private lounge because it mentioned how bad it is?

#6
Jason

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View PostSebastien Penet, on 19 September 2010 - 10:42 AM, said:

The problem is that we need more staff to handle so many little updates. vB should just slow down, there's no need for such frequent updates. If they just grouped the updates, it would be better and more professional. By the way, we could wonder why there are so much fixes. Maybe vB 4 came out too early... I think that's the root of the problem actually.

Blaming the constant little updates for the lack of updates on your part is a bit of a joke. vBulletin has proved that they are dedicated to keeping their product as clean and secure as possible. They put the product through an extensive testing period in the pre-gold releases, however finding all possible bugs would be impossible. These frequent updates are not large in size, and the template edits they require are not obsurd. By the way, we could wonder why skinbox has provided too few fixes. Maybe they are just being lazy? I think that's the root of the problem actually. Or perhaps it's the simple fact that you are brushing the issue under a mat and choosing instead to blame it on the frequent (and apprecated) updates from a solid company. This is a buisness, and your customers are paying for skins and updates that match the software they are for. Hiding customer testimonials from the public is one of the worst practices I have seen, it just results in that testimonial getting posted around other forums.

Considering that your vBulletin staff are apparently seperate from the IPB ones, I can't see how they could be too busy. What, are they updating skins to a version they don't have? Last I checked, that is impossible.



Say something, follow through.

#7
Sebastien Penet

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The problem is, as I already told hundred times, that Skinbox have changed a lot since we launched the vB skins. Our number of customers has been multiplied by 3 or 4. And so have our sales. By the way, vBulletin has changed its owner, and the frequency of the updates. It is not easy for us to handle these changes. That is why I told you that we were in the process of creating a vBulletin-dedicated staff in order to:
- Improve the support
- Give vB users frequent updates
- Update all our catalog to vB so that we can provide the same quality of service for both vB and IPB.

However, vB skinners are hard to find, because skinning for vBulletin is a bigger job. So that is why it takes some time, and that is why we wait for vB 4.1.

Finally, please don't tell us we are lazy. You're just talking about something you don't know. We, both Olivier and I, do more than 50 hours weekly. But that's not your problem how we live, how much we work. So let's just stay on topic, we are not lazy.

We may have launched our vB services too early. And we are in the process of restructuring this part of our business. We have nothing else to say on this.

Now I think we all have given our opinions and that nothing more can be said. So if anyone want to add something else, add it, if it's just the same argument all over again, then it's not worth doing it, I will delete it. If you want to say you agree with somebody, just use the + button. I'm just tired of giving the same reasons again and again.

Thanks everyone for your comprehension. I hope you will be patient enough to wait for vB 4.1 and that you will give us a second chance.
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#8
rk1gaming

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Thanks for your updates and I appreciate the response .. but I don't like the attitude of your post and I find it very disrespectful to your VB base of customers. I was referred to this site by another VB skinner who was holding off to VB 4.1 which most VB skinners have done due to VB4.0 being released way to earlier and just a mess.

We VB customers have come here because your team was doing VB skins and supporting the product as updates were released , your new customers came here for VB skins based on people like me sending them here for well done VB.40 Skins and support plain and simple.

No-one forced you to to start doing skins before VB4.1 you jumped way to early and tackled something you were not ready for as you touched on above.

VB4.0 is messed up and yes you can blame IB for the mess up , and they deserve it 100% but you provided the skin to me under the assumption that it would be supported as point releases came out .. and the last release I got was 4.05 which still really didn't work right and now we are at release 4.07 and I assume to be 4.08 then maybe 4.1 and I will wait for VB4.1 to be released and my skins to get updated and fixed and maybe look at purchasing other skins from you but I will let you know that if and when 4.1 comes and skins are updated that if I see a cost associated with that release after i paid for support and only received skin updates to 4.05 I will be very disappointed in Skinbox.

Now on to the points in your post that come across disrespectful:

We may have launched our vB services too early. And we are in the process of restructuring this part of our business. We have nothing else to say on this. ( like I said I respect that you admit you jumped the gun and that takes some balls to put that on paper but you should have a lot to say on this as I am a paying customer and sent people to this site for a product as well as have your logo on the bottom of my skin which directs people to this site.. you want to re-structure your site that is great and you have a plan going forward that's great and you should try to put us VB customers at easy and feel a little better about were we stand here at Skin-box but no you come across that you couldn't be bothered and upset that you are being asked.)

Now I think we all have given our opinions and that nothing more can be said. So if anyone want to add something else, add it, if it's just the same argument all over again, then it's not worth doing it, I will delete it. If you want to say you agree with somebody, just use the + button. I'm just tired of giving the same reasons again and again. ( your going to delete my post if i ask questions or want my concerns answered really bad form and I will tell you censoring your customers and not having health discussions about a road map or product plans will hurt you in the long run. VB customers are just like IPB customers we are loyal and have a tight knit group who discuss and refer people to products/skin sites if people are looking for those types of services. You will not only be the VB skinner when 4.1 drops and i would hate to see you guys lose some creditability with in the VB community as well as lose customers who happen to like skin-box based on some heated statements and arguments. )

I hope you try to put yourself in our shoes who have purchased a product from you and most of us can't use .. we have a rite to be upset and feel slighted.

I think you have a great skins , a great community and a Great possibility of growth in the VB market and I look forward to the future and to see what you guys have planned for vb skins and skinbox

Steve

#9
Sebastien Penet

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Alright, I won't delete your post. You misunderstood my warning about possible removal of repetitive requests. I was referring to a certain kind of users who don't read what happens and keep asking for the same things. That's obviously not your case in this post.

I agree with you on all points. We were not ready - because of the change in vB policy, which we did not anticipate unfortunately. We apologize.

What we ask you now is - please wait for vB 4.1. By the way, you will obviously get the updated skins for free.

Thanks for your input and for your comprehension, Steve. I hope that now, you don't see my answer as a sign of disrespect towards our vB customers, which it was not meant to be.
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#10
rk1gaming

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Thanks for your response .. and look forward to the future

#11
k1a

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A major big problem is with skinbox is that the themes are too cheap, they need to be 2,3 times higher and then you might attract VB staff so you can keep up with updates right now they cost nothing but if you go look at the competition they are at least twice/ if not more as much, and the bad thing is, is skinbox have some of the best themes/ skins around.

I dont mind paying 2/3 times more if the support is going to be there

#12
Sebastien Penet

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The problem is that vBulletin is quite hard to work with. Nobody wants to work on it. We thought we had found somebody, but he finally told us he was fully-booked. And that was our only option actually.

So if anyone knows a good vB coder, do not hesitate to tell him to contact us or give us his contact info.

Thanks :)
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#13
we_are_borg

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Well its clear again that skinbox is not really supporting there release vBulletin Styles this is now the second time (first was that they let us wait till IPB Skins where done) vBulletin users need to wait till Skinbox updates the Styles. You can blame vBulletin for many things but in the end this is our company and you provide support to the Styles not vBulletin, you build a company on something that can change daily, like we use vBulletin on our forums.

For the time being i can't update the software to 4.0.7 because the skin will not work 100% then we still got 4.0.8 that is coming and after that 4.1 that can still take more then a month before we see that. Until then people are boxed in with 4.0.6.

Also that you do 50 hours a week thats appreciated but has really no real meaning you have a company and you could have know that it would not be a Monday till Friday job and 40 hours a week.

#14
Sebastien Penet

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We knew this, I agree with you. But we just cannot work more. That's why we are two managing the business, that's why Scott have been hired. That's why we work with contractors.

The problem is that nobody wants to work on vBulletin. So we're still looking for somebody. We can't do anything until this lack of staff is resolved.

I understand your frustration. And we are frustrated too. Because we are not satisfying our customers, and we are not convincing new customers on vBulletin. That's a serious issue for our business, and we just do as much as we can to avoid it.

Thanks for your comprehension.
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#15
ørret

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I really dislike vB pulling you down skinbox, you got way better stuff to use your time on. Cut the vB service and only focus on IPB. Problem solved. Those that use vB should open their eyes and move to IPB anyway. I am not saying this as a fan I am saying this because IPB have better support and more staff working the forum, and they got a lot of extra applications which is maintained. Just to mention, IP.Gallery, IP.Downloads, IP.Nexus etc. They also don't come out with a point release every week, because the patches that come out is quality patches not some cheap patches that only work for a week. Leave the vB and focus on IPB.
Quote @ Sebastien Penet "The problem is that nobody wants to work on vBulletin."

Exactly. No one want to work on vB unless you pay them (excuse my language) shitloads of money to do it. It's like asking someone to maintaining a dead product, or at least a dying product (to be fair), and that costs. I think i stated clearly above also why nobody want to work on vB, I might have a clue, if it's not the whole truth, I am at least close to it. Thank you. (Let the flame on me begin... even though you know I'm right.)

#16
Sebastien Penet

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I understand your point of view ørret, some people may agree with you, but others think vBulletin can still survive. Some people like the way it presents the features, some people are simply stuck with it because they have a license and don't want to buy something else. That's why we will still support it.

The problem is not really money, I think the position we're offering is really a good deal. The problem is availability. The demand for this kind of services is very high. Still higher than for IPB (yes, it may sound surprising, but that's the reality).

So I hope some vB coder will see this post and send me an e-mail/pm, there's still a huge market :)
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#17
robgboreham

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I ask you one question!

Why can all other vb skin clubs keep updates and you cant, i will tell you why you have no clue about business, who the hell deploys vb skins and does not even have staff to support it!

Stop making VB skins!

Also i have posted about your company on the top 20 google ranked vb sites including the offical vb forums about this poor company.

I have since moved away to a company that cares about its clients and not just taking our money.

Also the post you deleted about my refund, trading standards have let me know you are not a legal trading company.

This is going to be a fun trip.

Good luck with the business and the tax bill you will revive.

#18
ørret

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View Postrobgboreham, on 03 October 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:

Stop making VB skins!
This is actually the only thing in your post I agree with. Rest of your post is so silly it goes through my eyes and to the thalamus through a nerve cord called n. opticus and directly to the recycle bin in cerebral cortex.

Funny to see vB customers raging about a dying product (vB) anyway...

#19
Sebastien Penet

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View Postrobgboreham, on 03 October 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:

I ask you one question!

Why can all other vb skin clubs keep updates and you cant, i will tell you why you have no clue about business, who the hell deploys vb skins and does not even have staff to support it!

Stop making VB skins!

Also i have posted about your company on the top 20 google ranked vb sites including the offical vb forums about this poor company.

I have since moved away to a company that cares about its clients and not just taking our money.

Also the post you deleted about my refund, trading standards have let me know you are not a legal trading company.

This is going to be a fun trip.

Good luck with the business and the tax bill you will revive.

Hello,

First of all, even if I have said that hundred times and you just seem to forget it every once in a while, we first launched our vB skins at the time of 3.8. At this time, it worked well. Then we updated them to vB 4. But, our IPB activity grew so quickly that we had to hire new staff. And so we did. Unfortunately, we couldn't find anyone for vBulletin. That's why we are pausing this service until this issue is solved, instead of providing two half-assed services, we provide only one. We had to make a choice, we chose to go with the bigger part of our customers, which was the logical choice.

Anyway, that's good to hear you found another company able to fit your needs.

And finally, no, we didn't delete your post. It has been moved in another forum and answered by Olivier. We just thought it was not fair to have only your post listed in our testimonials without us being able to answer it (answers are not visible in the testimonials page). Testimonials are for constructive feedback, not for threats or whatever. I think this announcement will be enough for people to know about what some clients think of our services.

By the way, Trading Standards are responsible for the UK, and we are settled in Quebec, so we just don't have anything to do with them.

I hope your new company will satisfy you better.

Regards,
S. Penet.
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#20
we_are_borg

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View PostSebastien Penet, on 02 October 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

We knew this, I agree with you. But we just cannot work more. That's why we are two managing the business, that's why Scott have been hired. That's why we work with contractors.

The problem is that nobody wants to work on vBulletin. So we're still looking for somebody. We can't do anything until this lack of staff is resolved.

I understand your frustration. And we are frustrated too. Because we are not satisfying our customers, and we are not convincing new customers on vBulletin. That's a serious issue for our business, and we just do as much as we can to avoid it.

Thanks for your comprehension.

Well the only thing i can do is check the styles for errors never tried to make my own, but for that i'm waiting till 4.1. I agree that there is a lack of style developers of vBulletin at the moment and to learn it you need to make time.





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